One of the most common little themes I see floating around the discussion of Femdom relationships is that “the way” to get compliance from your male sub is to deny him sex.
Not just sex, but sometimes any touch, or affection or permission to view his partners body. Which, listen if it works for you great, more power to you, but if someone tried that with me it would leave me cold.
I was going to start this post weeks ago, but I’ve been so busy that I’ve misplaced the post that inspired it, it was a Tumblr blog that was posting some excellent imagery, but on closer inspection I saw something pushing this “deny your man to drive him wild” theory, and knew that it wasn’t something I wanted coming up on my dash.
I know that popular belief says that all men are into “the chase” we’re hunters, and if you give it up too easy or too often we’ll get bored. Well I’m not, and I won’t. One of the big draws of D/s for me is that I see Dominance as an expression of desire, hand over all the control to my partner and she still wants me, wants my body, that’s incredibly hot. Furthermore, while I don’t want to have to “chase” my partner, if I’m in a relationship I’ll gladly move heaven and earth to make her smile. I’m willing to work for it, but don’t play disinterested with me or or you’ll lose me.
I want to feel like something to be devoured.
That’s one of the big flaws I saw in Uniquely Rika, which was a no nonsense guide to setting up a F/m dynamic in an already existing relationship. While the book avoided pandering to fantasists and gave reasonable advice, it did so from the point of view that for the most part fetish and kink are not very fun for women, and so they should happen sporadically and only if the garbage is being taken out and the gutters are being cleaned.
Though the author does get a little giddy describing tease and denial games, for the most part the book comes off with the same “lie back and think of England” attitude that is so pervasive in older sex advice resources
It says here that you should try pretending I’m a constant disappointment. Yes, like that.
Which makes me think: Why isn’t someone, anyone, selling female dominance fantasies to women?
I mean, we know there are dominant women out there, we know that women have fantasies, we even see a good deal of evidence that many women have fantasies about submissive men, men in peril, and men in pain? Surely someone somewhere should be writing a guide to getting these fantasies met. Why when Cosmo writes a column on how to excite your man by playing to his “dominatrix” fantasy they don’t instead advise women to embrace they own fantasies about being in control?
I hope that if and when someone writes a best selling how to get what you want in bed book, or a F/m piece of erotic fiction they portray female dominance as being about getting the sex you want instead of just denying him the sex he wants.
Someone’s going to get what she wants.
I’m so glad you wrote this! I hate, hate, hate the idea of playing hard to get. If I like someone they will know it; not in an overbearing way, but I will show my appreciation. The flip side of this is that because people are meant to “play it cool” (ugh.) many men are genuinely surprised when I’ve told them I think they are hot/sexy/attractive. The idea that women shouldn’t adore the men they’re with is simply nonsense. It’s just another stupid double standard that is floating about; “have lots of sex but don’t you dare like it, you needy whore. And don’t even think about having romantic sex with your longterm partner! That’s so square.” You know. That thing.
Whatever you do you can’t win. But I’m pretty sure that most real life dominant women get goopy over their submissives regardless of the tease and denial trope. Hell, sometimes a girl has just got to have a shag/cuddle/backrub.
I’m so pleased you’ve commented on this, I really appreciate your voice on this group of issues in particular.
many men are genuinely surprised when I’ve told them I think they are hot/sexy/attractive.
Which is so weird, because I’ve seen time and time again guys (not just submissive guys) that they want women to be more explicit and more forward, to make the first move if not every time, closer to fifty fifty than whatever it’s at now. I suppose regardless of desire, guys might still be surprised to see it actually happen.
The idea that women shouldn’t adore the men they’re with is simply nonsense. It’s just another stupid double standard that is floating about; “have lots of sex but don’t you dare like it, you needy whore. And don’t even think about having romantic sex with your longterm partner! That’s so square.” You know. That thing.
So I’ve noticed something interesting, You and I look at the same tropes and You see “women shouldn’t,” while I see “women don’t.” You are picking up this cultural message of oppression and I’m hearing that I’ll never find a woman who wants the things I want. I wonder if that is a widespread double interpretation and what might be best done to fix the issue.
I’m pretty sure that most real life dominant women get goopy over their submissives regardless of the tease and denial trope.
I do think “tease and denial” on a short term scale, as a fun and affectionate activity could be fun, it’s the language that suggests long term and/or emotional denial that really shuts me down.
I’ve never understood the whole ice queen dom thing, especially in the context of a relationship. Why the hell would a woman want to be in a relationship with a guy that she doesn’t want to have lots of hot sex and snuggles with? The most lovely thing about being in a D/s relationship to me is the touchy-feely stuff; I want to feel close to my partner, and even the kinky stuff is so much more satisfying when there’s real intimacy.
So many of the stereotypes and the porn and the “should”s are centered around the guy and what he wants, and the denial thing is no exception. You hit it on the head when you said, “female dominance as being about getting the sex you want instead of just denying him the sex he wants.” The “getting the sex you want” is the female fantasy here, and it’s somehow very taboo. The denial is the male fantasy. It’s the same reason all the femdom porn is of latex-clad bimbos mugging at the camera and being bitchy. The ice queen thing seems to be a popular fantasy for the kind of guy that pays for bdsm and bdsm porn. In my experience, that kind of thing has very little bearing on the reality of bdsm in an interpersonal context.
“Why isn’t someone, anyone, selling female dominance fantasies to women?” Because the culture at large doesn’t give a shit what women actually want, even if there were an overwhelming and vocal untapped market for it, which there doesn’t seem to be in the case of female dominance. And mass media is invested in keeping women unhappy, because it helps sell things like makeup and magazines and clothes and cleaning products and diamond jewelry, and kinky porn.
I’ve never understood the whole ice queen dom thing
I think I get the purpose, for a scene or some roleplay, The detachment is supposed to make the sub feel low, and more subbly I suppose, but it seems deeply unpleasant to maintain over any length of time on either side of the slash.
the culture at large doesn’t give a shit what women actually want, even if there were an overwhelming and vocal untapped market for it…And mass media is invested in keeping women unhappy
I was going to argue that I doubt there are any suits purposefully and maliciously perpetuating this shitty situation, but I realized that isn’t the claim you were making. I really think that right now there are tons of products and types of entertainment being made for niche markets, and women are hardly a niche. I know that there are several companies and sites dedicated to making porn for women, so someone out there ought to realize that there could be a market for good BDSM porn for the dominant female market.
What we need is like a porn kickstarter!
Oh, c’mon, Peroxide.
There might be a market for good femdom porn, but I’m willing to bet its nowhere near as big as the market for stuff like 50 Shades . I think we have to admit that male submission is not the dominant sexual paradigm of women, either here or in any other society ever, not even semi-matriarchal ones like the Iroquois. Still, unless publishers are turning down this stuff left and right you WOULD think there would be room for at least ONE femdom thriller at a major publishing house (not some vanity press or the mostly small sellers of erotica), so I suppose there is some prejudice at work as well.
As far as the Ice Queen Dom thing, while I think you have most of the explanation for it, I’m afraid there are other aspects of it not so positive. If you’ve ever read some of the cuckold blogs you will find guys (and some ladies, I’m not naming either but I hope you know who I’m talking about) who claim its not only expected but perfectly fine that males and their “animal” sexuality be denied and controlled. Some of the cuckold and chastity blogs have clocks that “tick off” how many months or years its been since their wives and significant others have let them have even the slightest release. A certain well known chastity blogger openly brags about how happy he is (and I suppose all men should be) that his wife hasn’t had any actual sexual contact with him for over a year , meanwhile he does all the domestic chores and works only for her projects and for her happiness. He also informs of how NONE of his fantasies of being in a femdom relationship have ever been fulfilled, but that’s ok because they were stupid male fantasies and femdom means that only the wives wishes, needs and desires count, period.
Imagine what the common reaction would be to a wife who wrote something like that about how she only existed to serve her husband and none of her wants, desires, needs, rightfully meant anything.
Male submissives do have, in general (at least in USA, I don’t know about other countries) a tremendous amount of self-shame and hatred among their ranks. Sometimes this even gets extended to our sex as a whole. Female submissives don’t have this problem nearly as much because they aren’t hit with shame for not displaying dominant traits.
Perhaps this self-hatred and shame (and even dominant females can get shamed too) explains why there aren’t very many books that deal with male submission in a sexual relationship.
“I think we have to admit that male submission is not the dominant sexual paradigm of women”
I don’t think we have to admit anything just yet. I think people are under immense pressure to conform their sexuality to what is socially acceptable. Any deviation is mocked, ridiculed and worn away until even out private thoughts conform to a public standard. Just look at what body types men find attractive, or how many people identify as straight despite Kinsey’s statistics placing many of them closer to Bi. If a Femdom romance of any quality were marketed as aggressively as %0 shades I bet it would do just as well.
“If you’ve ever read some of the cuckold blogs”
I haven’t. I don’t know if I can really use this word, but I find that sort of writing triggering. reading it makes me feel bad, so I don’t read it when at all possible.
As to the self hatred and shame, that’s sort of why I’m here. To provide what positive voice I can for Male submission.
Oh, and just to raise the hair on your head and make it turn grey because I am UTTERLY EVIL 😉 :
http://theredpillroom.blogspot.com/2012/08/male-dominance-beginners-guide.html
Ask me what i found problematic about it. I dare you 🙂
Fuck that Noise.
Ugh, I can’t even read that garbage. I cannot stand to be talked down to, or belittled because I don’t treat my sexuality as predatory. Even if I were interested in domming, I wouldn’t go about it that way.
Ten points to Gryffindor!
I’m dominant. That’s not being a dom. That’s been a douchebag.
Posts like that are the reason the wider population equates BDSM with abuse. Though I note the post doesn’t seem to be referring to ‘dominance’ in a BDSM context, more in the context of insecure guys who need the world to bow in submission before the supreme eminence of their penises in order to maintain a semblance of self-esteem.
Posts like that are the reason the wider population equates BDSM with abuse.Though I note the post doesn’t seem to be referring to ‘dominance’ in a BDSM context.
I concur, I think the concept of dominance the post is going for is less the authority build on mutual consent and desire for power exchange, and more the “men should take charge and women should like it” sort of outdated mindset that is getting a bump from 50 shades because on the surface that is what the fantasy looks like.
Heeheehee. I think I’m going to post that link at Fern’s place and see what SHE thinks 🙂
Who would have known that having a screwdriver in your pocket was the key to success?
What? Oh no that, I’m just happy to see you.
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I have complained about the sex-negativity in FemDom many times. So thank you for writing this.
IKnowRight!?! You’d think that kinksters would be a little more progressive wouldn’t you?
I feel the need to point out that the OP completely misread Uniquely Rika. He got it completely wrong when he said she advocates giving out play only after the chores are done. She actually wants to separate play from submission, and to avoid creating the feeling that play is “earned” by the sub doing his chores. Her point, which I think is a good one, is that the domme plays when SHE wants to play, and not when the sub has earned play by doing chores. This pre-supposes that the domme does in fact want to play! I don’t see anything in Rika that says anything about “laying back and thinking of England” attitude. In fact, its the opposite! I think the OP may have been put off on what Rika calls “male centric activities”. Lots of people focus on that term and can’t get past it to see what she means, so perhaps its a poor choice of words. But clearly Rika wants to rid the sub of thinking that if he does x, y and z, then he is owed play. Rika assumes the domme loves her sub, wants to play with him, but that the play needs to be on her terms, and when she wants it.
Hmmm, That may be the case. It has been a while since I read Rika and I may have inferred a different message than was intended. I did get the distinct impression that Rika did not enjoy, and did not expect her female readers to enjoy a lot of fetish play.