I’m not sure if this is going to be interesting at all, it’s more of the same old thing I’ve been writing for a bit, however, if down the line I write about doing some things, I want my readers to know that I’ve been doing all the requisite consideration and communication and what-not.
Furthermore, this post represents a simplified version of the many complicated things I’m dealing with in my head, before you suggest a simple solution to all my issues, understand, I’m only giving you the half of it.
I went over to see Tavi for a bit on Tuesday. Over dinner we talked about, well a lot of things, related to our arrangement/relationship.
If I hadn’t made it apparent, I’m quite smitten with this woman. Despite intending to go into this to find a play partner and keep it detached and fun, I’ve developed quite the attachment to her.
The first time she kissed me I knew I was going to get hooked. It didn’t take long for me to make peace with the fact that when this ends I’m going to hurt (in a not good way.) What I really don’t want is for her to hurt, But she says she’s feeling the same connection and so now what?
We’re enjoying what it is that we’re doing, for obvious reasons. We’re compatible in a lot of fun and exciting ways, we’ve got great chemistry, what’s the down side? Why can’t this go on forever?
Yes, I want to be a houseboy, but I need to be taken to Church between the beatings and making dinner in my underwear.
Well, Role conflict.
That’s why.
While we’ve, got the chemistry and a good deal of compatibility, in the long term, she’s polyamorous and I’m not. That’s not going to change, and while hypothetically I could be monogamous with a poly partner, that doesn’t sit well with my faith. (and I’d never be able explain it to any of my important friends or family. saying my wife wears the pants someday maybe, but saying I’m owned by a married woman, just won’t be alright to some of the people in my life that are important to me.)
I do an OK job of balancing my conflicted nature. I know that in the long term, my beliefs and values have always done a better job of making me happy that pursuing my immediate desires. (I could make more moralistic arguments about why I continue to practice my faith, and why I use it to make decisions, but for here, I’ll go with the basic “it makes me happy.”)
My faith, and ongoing abstinence is why sex isn’t on the table for us. Knowing that she would like to have sex (as would I, obviously, but I can do self denial) creates an internal tension for me because I yearn to give Tavi what she wants. That’s my thing, right? I’m submissive I want to make my partners happy.
She is, of course very good about not pushing me towards anything I’m not comfortable with, which would be the end of story if a good part of me didn’t desire to lose myself inside of her.
And because of that little internal struggle, I’m not comfortable getting into a D/s arrangement. Even though, arguably I want to be owned even more than I want to get laid. My sex drive is a simple physical need, and I can hand have been handling it with a simple manual override for years. Kinking on being owned, Wishing I belonged to someone (and lately, for that someone to be her, if I’m going to be brutally honest) that’s heavy heart and mind stuff, that I am afraid to let out of the box.
Essentially, it boils down to this: I don’t believe I’m capable of doing D/s without a serious commitment, really I’d want to be married or at least engaged before I became someone’s submissive, because after that I feel like I’d be all in. For me it would be all about what they want and I’m not sure that I could continue setting boundaries myself. I think that if I really submit, that’s it, game over, I’m theirs for life.*
Of course, part of me keeps saying “there could be worse fates.”
*This is of course, conjecture, based on what I know about myself, and may or may not be a romanticized idea of what submission is.
Which leaves us at this relational place, where we both really like each other, but we can’t move forward, since our desired forwards are quite different but, we are both emotionally invested in this thing, this relationship.
So that’s what we discussed. It went well, and I’m glad she brought it up, because I wouldn’t have the guts to do so. We are going to keep doing what works for us, while it works for us, and hope that when it ends it doesn’t hurt to bad.
And despite my reticence about making the relationship D/s-ified, we may explore playing with it, we’ll see. Collars, which trigger in me some big emotional desires, were discussed, because we’d like to play with leashes and leading, but you can’t really have one without the other.
Tuesday wasn’t all serious talks, besides getting my big news, after dinner she got out a wooden spoon and left me with some fun bruises like the one pictured below, before we had to eventually part ways.
I thought I took some picture earlier, when it was still huge, but those were of other bruises.
Hope you all had a happy thanksgiving.
I have no solutions. I just wanted to say that while the particulars aren’t really the same, and I’m not going to write a novel here, I get it. I really, really get it. The emotional connection in play is not something I expected.
I know myself well enough to have known that with any amount of physicality I was going to feel some affection, but I don’t think I would be falling so hard if Tavi weren’t as totally rad as she is.
But yeah, beatings and snuggles are a shortcut to my heart for sure.
Yea I find it hard to find a woman into the same stuff I’m into which makes satisfaction from random one night stands minimal. I haven’t figured this problem out that is without paying for it lol…
I’m not sure what to tell you dude. A quick perusal of you blog did not reveal what it is that you are into.
I know that finding women who are into what I’m into is not nearly as hard as people claim. what is difficult (and this is more on the topic to this post) is finding someone who has the same long term goals, and is compatible, and chemistry and then is into whatever kinky shit your into.
What got me to where I am was finding an online group relevant to my interests, and going out to meet ups in my area, good luck if you try the same.
nice I will try it an I totally understand what your saying about long term
You’re 100% right in knowing that there is no simple solution, and as someone who (over)thinks and posts a fraction of what’s in my head on my own blog, I understand there’s a lot that can’t be written or explained.
I hope this doesn’t sound condescending, but I’m really really glad to hear that you’re doing the mental gymnastics and thinking-it-through that you need to do to make sure that you are and will be okay (and even if you won’t be, at least you are aware of possible outcomes).
If you haven’t already, you should read Lily’s post, “The Relationship Escalator,” on theblackleatherbelt. Lily and her submissive won’t move in together, won’t get married, and won’t have children–they aren’t on the relationship escalator–and so, “the point of [the] relationship is to enjoy each others’ company…”
Don’t worry… there’s no advice in Lily’s post. 🙂 But, what she said made me feel a little better about my own relationship–I don’t intend to get married or have children or grow old with anyone, and sometimes that feels strange (particularly because it goes against most normative cultural narratives of heteronormative-forever-monogamy-until-death-do-us-part).
Of course, I understand my situation, Lily’s situation, and your situation are very different, but they’re all similar in that we recognize our relationships won’t “escalate.” Reading what Lily said, and being reminded that I’m in my relationship simply to enjoy this moment (without the burden/hope of more), it gave me some peace and let me refocus on what’s important to me… being happy. 🙂
Anyway, I’ll quit rambling now. 🙂
That’s good advice, I’m going to go read that post in a minute.
Enjoying this moment is exactly what I’m planning on doing, and I probably wouldn’t stress too much over it, except I am looking to someday do the whole normative cultural narrative of heteronormative-forever-monogamy-until-death-do-us-part.
And I get that I can’t have that with this awesome and enjoyable person I’m with at the moment, which makes me feel weird that I’m sharing this much intimacy with someone I don’t intend to do forever with.
I can compartmentalize what we’re doing now, but too much more and I’ll seriously feel like I’m cheating on my future wife. (But that’s a me issue, and i don’t expect too many people reading BDSM blogs to really get that.)
We seem to be of similar-enough mindset that I mostly expected this kind of thing for a while now. The intersection of romance, sex, and BDSM (especially D/s) is, to me, very complicated, and I don’t even have your stand against premarital sex. If I was in your shoes, I would be really conflicted, too. I’m still getting my feet wet with BDSM, and so far I’m staying to the masochism side of things because I know playing with D/s would be a much more emotional experience for me.
And I’m going through something similar, I feel. It hasn’t gotten to the play step yet (tomorrow night, though), but I’ve been talking quite a bit with a woman who I find very attractive, not just physically, but in her smarts, outlook, kinks, etc. And I’m having to fight off a huge crush until I can get a better idea if the feeling is mutual. I don’t want to fall hard for her, then find out I was just a chance for her to release some pent-up sadism. She isn’t making it easy, though. At the end of a recent online chat, her sign off that pushed my buttons in so many ways. Maybe I’ll find out tomorrow that while we share kinks, we don’t have the right chemistry. It would solve a lot, but it isn’t a solution I want.
I think we need a support group for conflicted male submissives looking for romance. We could have a weekly meeting over coffee cake, show off any marks, and discussing the pitfalls of being a single male submissive. Who’s in?
I’d do that. (but I’m really hungry at the moment and coffee cake sounds divine.)
You’ve been reading, so you know. I was going to just indulge my masochism, just a wee bit, and it just steamrolled so smoothly into the fun (and slightly terrifying) quasi-dating relationship we’ve got now.
I know I’m not built for poly, even if I weren’t religious, even if I didn’t have friends or family that I’d have to explain this to, but still part of me just wants it all, and wants it all with her, right now. But I can’t have it, and that’s sad. But we’re having fun and that’s happy.
Hopefully your play partner arrangement is less complicated. Otherwise I’ll see you Tuesday for the coffee cake and bruise comparison.
Not as complicated as yours, at least. She isn’t in a relationship, but I do believe she is poly. And I don’t think I’m cut out for poly, either, not long-term.
I don’t know if I’ve had coffee cake in the past 10 years. It was a regular item on my school’s lunch menu, but I don’t think I’ve had it since graduating. Still, when I came up with the support group idea, it was the first thing that came to mind for food. Tuesdays are no good, though. Deadline day, and I’m always pushing deadline as it is.
Hmm. I think the situation is complex simply on the basis that we aren’t compatible long term, but might both enjoy trying for it if it weren’t so clearly a bad idea.
If your play partner isn’t currently in a relationship, the question to ask, if things go well is: does being polyamorous mean she must have multiple romantic partners? and if so, are you OK with that at any level?
If you’re not set on coffee cake, then perhaps we could grab a drink instead. All this worry about the future means I could use one,
No, coffee cake is good. I still like the idea for coffee cake. Tuesday is bad. But drinks are good too. What’s your preference? Me, I like a nice smooth Manhattan.
I’ll try to worry about things going well before I start to worry about the other stuff. I don’t want to get ahead of myself.
I feel like I read somewhere that you’re in the midwest, Kansas city? is was that you? If I’m mistaken and you’re are in Seattle and you do want to do drinks and coffee cake sometime (Though I can’t for the life of me think of where we could get both at once) that would be cool. I haven’t had a Manhatten in quite a while.
Yeah, you don’t want to be one of those guys that plans out your whole future together before you’ve had your first date. Those guys are the worse.
You’re close. Wichita, Kansas (or that general area, anyway). So it isn’t really a practical offer. Otherwise, coffee cake and drinks should be a thing, if it isn’t already. I think I just got the perfect idea for a unique bar experience.
Coming from an irish catholic background, I understand, even though I’m not religious now, it’s still left me with a lot of strong morals that I guess carry over into my own relationship. I indulged in poly in the past and it wan’t for me… Like you, I’d much rather have focus on just one person.
Enjoy the moment you’re having with her, but try to never lose sight of the future and what you want long-term. – keeping it at least, in the back of your head will maybe make it hurt less at the end.
Poly, just doesn’t compute for me. I get very caught up in loving one person and have difficulty conceiving of needing anyone else. So, while this relationship is casual, it doesn’t bother me. If we were to try and move forward, I’m sure that it would eat at me.
But yeah, I’m enjoying our time together, trying to be mindful of the future without letting the inevitable end of this thing hang over us like the break up of Damocles.
“For me it would be all about what they want and I’m not sure that I could continue setting boundaries myself. I think that if I really submit, that’s it, game over, I’m theirs for life.”
Be careful with this – that’s the only advice I have. When I start an emotional connection with someone, in any context, in any role, I too struggle with boundaries. It’s so awesome that you know what you’re looking for and what will and won’t work for you – and that you’re being somewhat cautious when it comes to things you know you won’t be able to compromise on (aren’t those called dealbreakers?). Even in the complete absence of compatibility issues, though, boundaries still need upkeep & maintanence. That’s something I need to work on myself, especially as a submissive – I think there will always be a struggle there, or rather room for growth. Sigh.
Room for growth, Ha! That’s definitely something I’m not short on.
I think that the only way for me to play completely it safe with this, is to just stay out of the D/s pool. I don’t think it’d be enough to try and just play in the shallow end, because submerging myself in the deep end is all I ever wanted. On the other hand it’s too hot not to at least dip my toes in, right?
In case that metaphor is completely out of control, It is very exciting for me to make people I like happy, more exciting by far than being prudent about what is and isn’t good for me. Adding D/s, to that would make it very difficult for me to pay attention to or maintain my boundaries. I think that for me to be emotionally safe, I have to wait for a partner who I can commit myself to and entrust that they are going to help maintain those boundaries. Still, I want it so much, I may play around with it a bit, and hopefully not get burned.
Being smitten, and all the painful, delightful wanting that goes with it, is intoxicating. Knowing that no matter what course you take will entail extreme frustration doesn’t make it easier. It’s good that you’re talking–at least you can keep your expectations in line, if not your desires.
I’d like to point out that these conflicts aren’t unique to monogamy, and that as one of your non-monogamous readers this still hits painfully close to home. D/s is intense. Sharing that intensity with someone other than the man I married definitely raises these concerns. Hopefully you’ll be able to enjoy this without either of you getting too hurt in the end.
These conflicts seem to be more related to non-monogamy to me. Or rather to not practicing the strict form of hyper-monogamy that no-one outside the church seems to think is realistic.
I was taught that ideally this sort of emotional, physical and sexual intimacy were best shared only with one person. And to a degree (partially on the emotion and physical levels, and for myself on the sexual level) I agree.
Life would be simpler if that was how everybody did things. I certainly wouldn’t be dealing with these conflicted feelings, and could instead go back to crushing loneliness and being absolutely touch starved.