From growing up in a conservative and religious environment I have this long list of ideas that I never had to think about before. It isn’t that the people around me were, for example, anti-feminist (though some of them probably were) but “feminists” were more likely to be a punchline, than feminism was likely to be discussed. And there are a lot of topics that I’m just recently examining and learning about in a more thorough way, than the dismissive, breezing over they got during my youth.
Stirring up some minor net controversy at the moment (ok, more like last week, but I’ve been busy) is a recent article by David Wong, at Cracked.com entitled 5 ways Modern Men are trained to Hate Women. Since Wong is one of my favorite authors, and I found the article entertaining I blogged it on Tumblr without a second thought because it’s humorous, and you know, kinda rings true.
“…for most men, most of the time. We’re starving, and all women are various types of food. Only instead of food, it’s sex. And we’re trying to conduct our everyday business around the fact that we’re trying to renew our driver’s license with a talking pair of boobs. So, from about age 13 on, around 90 percent of our energy and discipline is devoted to overcoming this, to behave like civilized human beings and not like stray dogs in a meat market. One where instead of eating the meat, they want to hump it.”
I read that, and found it amusing, and (seriously the whole thing is worth a read) passed it on cause it seemed to me that Wong had pegged the misogynistic lessons we get from society pretty well. But then I see this rebuttal that makes some very good points that I hadn’t even considered.
Mostly the author seems to think that Wong has let misogynists off easy, with the old, “it’s all the uncontrollable penis’s fault.”
“Wong means well, but he’s letting men off the hook. By making misogyny about men’s supposedly overpowering sex drive, he makes it seem primal and nearly unavoidable. After all, if nature dictates that men want it and women don’t, then there’s not much you can do about it.”
Now, all of a sudden I have to reconsider things, and I’m not entirely used to it. I have first hand experience that women want sex, sometimes more than men. I know that men are capable of self control, and I’ve known women who need to work on it.
I sometimes feel like I’m dragging around an insatiable sex drive, and I manage not to be a slut shaming misogynistic asshole. (Though, I’m not really a fan of our promiscuous culture, and don’t find promiscuity to be an attractive trait in friends or possible romantic interests.) I do try to respect other people’s right to do with their bodies as they please. I’m also quite aware that women can slut-shame each other just as much as men might.
So, I look at this, an article that makes me laugh, describing why other people are assholes, an an article that while it brings up valid points, makes me feel like an asshole for laughing in the first place. I’m not sure what I’m supposed to do, other than make an effort not to be an asshole.
I tried, the other day, to (and this is jumping topics a bit) correct my housemates assholery. Basically, I got nowhere and had to sit though an amazingly trans-phobic conversation, because me knowing so much (relative to them) about transgender issues is highly suspect.
Not that their suspicions would be entirely unfounded.
The thing is, maybe three/four years ago I wouldn’t have cared at all, like many people I’m pretty self centered and I only became interested in, I don’t know what you’d call it, sexual freedom/equality, non-discrimination, because I started to realize that that what turned me on was different than what “normal” people found acceptable.
You know, I didn’t go to university, I haven’t taken classes on how to think about, or talk about this issues. I read, (some, if it’s interesting) and I think I understand most of what I read, but I still feel, I don’t know, incapable of affecting change on even the most localized level of the people around me.
It’s frustrating, and stupid, and makes me want to just go live on the moon.
I have a couple of thoughts, some of which compete with each other.
Part of me wants to say, “Humor tends to be simplistic and offensive.” That is true for SOME humor (a lot of it). However, I also understand that the part of me that finds a lot of this offensive humor to be funny is the part that would like to remain unaware of the white male privilege I enjoy. In other words (as you point out) it isn’t as funny when you think about who is actually being hurt by it.
Another part of me understands that Americans, in particular, deal with the shortcomings of our culture through humor. Look through a history of our sit-coms and you can see pretty clearly which issues society was trying to deal with. It is a small, but significant, step to make from (for example) picking up the ideas on Cracked as being funny because that’s the way things really are and thinking of them as being funny because it is so impossible that they are. For most people, though, that step is taken very slowly over a period of years, if not decades.
As far as the despair of changing the world…I get it. I want a world where my 5 year old sons can grow up and live openly and authentically, whatever that may mean for them. Yet I find myself unable to even be open with the world about my true identity because…well, I have to work (and not being able to work is a HUGE concern for me, currently). So how do we make a better society if we cannot (or will not) take the chances necessary to make it a better society?
I have no answer for that. At least, I have no satisfactory answer for it. I do the best I can. I write about these topics as openly and honestly as I can, and try to not let myself off the hook while not accepting too much responsibility for society, either.
Another part of me looks at it like this: I do not feel that I chose to be submissive. As I look back at each and every romantic relationship I’ve had, I can see that, without knowing it, I was seeking a submissive role. I am naturally submissive in intimate relationships with women.
As true as THAT is, I also believe that the narrow-minded people who react against natural sexuality are also not responsible for how they are, either. Free-will is very limited, and they are simply behaving in a socially-controlled fashion. Change comes slowly, but it only comes if we don’t give up.
Cracked.com, as much as I like it does tend to reinforce traditional gender roles and hegemonic heterosexuality almost constantly. I’ve seen some articles that while quite amusing, are also making a joke of my sexuality. David Wong is, I think, better than that. I wouldn’t be surprised to see him address the backlash over this article at some point. At the same time I feel like the author of the rebuttal, refuses to get the joke, and comes off as not having a sense of humor. (Although I recently read some post somewhere, that made the argument that just because you are tired of hearing a certain type of joke repeated, doesn’t mean you don’t have a sense of humor.)
I know what you mean, feeling like this aspect wasn’t a choice, and it’s a pain to have to withhold such a major aspect of what makes you tick. I don’t know how to change things either, though I’ve been thinking if we could only get a F/m equivalent to Fifty Shades of Grey, that might help a lot.
“… if we could only get a F/m equivalent to Fifty Shades of Grey, that might help a lot.”
I’m working on it! Except the dominant is not going to be completely emotionally damaged and the submissive is not going to be a whiny baby who refers to genitals as ‘down there’.
Ferns
I expect that it will be a giant roller coaster of a novel in 400 sizzling chapters. A searing portrayal of domestic dominance in a loving relationship with some hot Gypsies thrown in.
“I’ve been thinking if we could only get a F/m equivalent to Fifty Shades of Grey, that might help a lot.”
Ewwww. No. I think it’s pretty tawdry and filled with romance novel cliches of plain, homely girl ensnaring a billionaire who is in his 20s and has a large penis. It couldn’t get more tiresome.
I certainly don’t want to read a novel where a an average dude somehow manages to attract a billionaire supermodel domme with enormous breasts.
Something a little more imaginative please.
I think 50 shades of grey is seeing so much success not because it’s a good bdsm novel, but because the masses of vanilla ladies out there are itching for some light bdsm in their relationships and find it new and exciting.
I’ve started seeing more about it since I made that remark and it doesn’t look good. But it would be nice for a novel to come out that highlights the appeal of female domination/male submission. Obviously I’m hoping for something of quality but just getting some positive media attention directed towards this sort of relationship dynamic would be excellent.
I get that Wong is making a sort of self deprecatory joke, but when I read the piece I thought that this was almost a justification for compulsory hijabs or keeping women out of public life so they don’t ‘distract’ men from work. Although I think there is some evening up necessary between what is acceptable for men/women to wear in different places (women with low cut tops in a workplace – put it away; men topless in the street – put it away) mens supposed ‘distraction’ is not the point imo.
I think that this is a pretty common feeling – certainly I have it with regard to various of my views which are not shared by my family. It is really frustrating. Though it is also a symptom of needing to hang out with people who more share your opinions.
Anytime you find the F/m equivalent of Fifty Shades of Grey please shout about it, as I will want to buy several copies. 🙂
Did you read the whole article or just that section? because that selection comes late enough in the the article that the satirical nature is pretty clear. He is, I think making the joke that this is what it can feel like to be a man, and this he postulates is why you will hear some men arguing for “compulsory hijabs or keeping women out of public life.”
I was thinking that occasionally it can be that hard. Seattle is fairly cold and wet so most folks dress pretty conservatively, when a woman does show of cleavage it is almost a double take inducing sight. Worse, there’s a little voice in my head that thinks it would be a good idea to go complement her on her boobs. Meanwhile I’m trying to focus and not act like an ass, but I wouldn’t argue in favor of covering it up.
If I find a F/m equivalent to Fifty Shades of Grey it’ll be on the blog before I finish. I’d be handing copies out in the street.
That kind of thinking is part of rape culture, though. It’s why people ask “what was she wearing?” when a woman is assaulted and why rape trials are all about victim blaming. Because male lust is privileged and defined as uncontrolled. So women are responsible for making sure we tiptoe around it. This isn’t just part of rape cases, either: it’s a young girl being sexually harassed by a male family member and told it’s because her shirt was too tight, she must have enticed him (yes, okay, I’m talking about myself, but I’ve heard similar stories from female friends) I don’t know if a man has the *right* to make jokes about that. When a man, who’s never had to live with the nightmare of rape culture, brings up the narratives that undergird it, even if his intention is satirical, I wonder if he has the right to stick his fingers in that wound.
Well there is a complicated topic that I don’t even want to say anything about without giving it a great deal of forethought.
I do want to suggest two things, firstly humor is a big part of how our culture processes it’s problems, articles like Wong’s aimed at frat boys may be insensitive and clumsy but they plant a seed, they start conversations and hopefully things start to get better.
With that said I used to believe that people should be able to joke about any topic, and only changed my mind after reading this post. Now that I’ve read through several posts about Wong’s article I think that he’s got good intentions, and is even on the right track bringing this discourse to his audience but he biffed this post. It’s pretty clear that he’s not trying to hurt anyone, that he’s working to point out how messed up our culture is. I’m hoping he sees the discussions about his post and addresses them in the future.
“Worse, there’s a little voice in my head that thinks it would be a good idea to go complement her on her boobs.”
There are compliments, and there are compliments. However, I’ve become aware recently that part of my male privilege is not having random people thank me for accentuating my sensuality. On the other hand, I also feel like it is not a horrible thing to admire someone that is beautiful. It’s simply wrong to act as if that is the only thing that makes them worth noticing and/or valuable.
I’m fairly certain I’m not supposed to go up to strange women and say “Wow, you’ve got really nice breasts!” I wouldn’t be implying that that is the only thing that makes them worth noticing and/or valuable, but still I don’t think it would go over well, and yet the voice in my head makes the suggestion anyway.
Ditto what Tomio said.
About the article – I picked up on one little aspect of it yes – essentially though what he is doing is reframing several gender issues as a humorous ‘men are controlled by their dicks’ piece. There’s nothing wrong with that imo and humor can be a good vehicle for important issues. But some of the alternative interpretations for that article are not great.
It just makes me sad. What hope does world peace/ the environment etc. have when we can’t manage a small thing like sex.
Embracing discomfort is really important to being an ally of people who don’t have your privilege. Even as someone who is myself a woman and has taken a lot of classes on gender, there is and will always be a persistent sense of things not being right and my own limitations to understand and ethically respond to how things are not right. I have to examine my own internalized sexism and how my white privilege shapes my experience of sexism — being uncomfortable is something to embrace. It doesn’t mean you’re not doing good enough, it actually means you’re caring enough to take on a small portion of the cognitive burden of people who don’t have the option of retreating into privilege. Since the first aspect of all privilege is not having to think about one’s privilege.
But it’s hard, and just being cognizant of privilege makes it harder to fit in. Yeah, I’m going to try and do the right things, keep learning about how my privilege works and try to become a batter person but this shit is hard and I’m not excited about embracing this discomfort.
…right. But even though checking one’s privilege is constructed as this amazing thing by society, it’s really just what’s required to be a decent human being. And no matter how hard I, for instance, work to check my white privilege I will never have to know the inescapable pain of dealing with structural racism. And no matter how hard it is as a man to acknowledge male privilege, you’ll never have to live with the cognitive burden women endure day after day after day. It’s important to put embracing discomfort vs. the experience of oppression in context. I think it’s fine and healthy to talk about how hard it can be, but it’s important that the people who are actually *catching hell* and being confronted with a world that doesn’t treat them as fully human are at the center of the discussion.
Well, I’m working on it, but I’m human and like most of us I’m pretty self centered. So as I work through this the things that occur to me most frequently, and the things I have the most fully formed opinions (as in enough to make a blog post about) about are how this affects me.
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